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 i need help!

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mike734

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PostSubject: i need help!   Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:05 pm

i tend to over analyze thing a bit much and this is where i need your help. I really want 30s but im afraid of the power loss. the little guy on my right shoulder says F it jus get 30s and be done with it and don't worry about the weight cause I am splitting hairs. the guy on my other shoulder is saying go the safe route get a nice , light 28" tire and be happy.

right now I am running a 28x11x12 titan 589 which is supposed to be around 35 lbs and true measurement of the tire right now is 26" it was 27" new.

do yall think there will be a noticeable loss from what i have to the tires listed below?
 
outlaw mst                  28x12x12   34.5 lbs
zillas                           28x12x12   27.6 lbs
blackwater evolution    28x10x12   31.8 lbs
blackwater evolution    30x10x12   36 lbs
mudlite xxl                  30x10x12   33 lbs
 
if i buy new 14" wheels my choices are

blackwater evolution     28x10x14    31.9 lbs
blackwater evolution     28x11x14    33 lbs
rocktane                      28x10x14    31.5 lbs
rocktane                      30x10x14    36.3 lbs
bighorn                       30x10x14    31 lbs
blackwater evolution    30x10x14     33.3 lbs

i ride in creeks , coal silt (black sand) , rock , dirt trails , washouts , thin mud and shale. i tend to avoid the thick pb mud.

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ChrisH

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:16 am

I say do the 30s. If you are considering them, you want them.

Let me also say that you could do a 30" MudLite on the OEM sport wheels. That would give you height and low overall weight. The stock wheels are super light weight. I think the front rims weigh around 7lbs each. That would give you a 40lb wheel and tire combo.

As opposed to a set of 30" Bighorns on 14" wheels. For example, my 14" No Limits wheels weigh 12lbs so I'm looking at about 43lbs per corner. 

My 2 cents

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:58 am

can we fit 30"  tires under the stock rhino?   Our do we need a 2"  lift?

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Hump

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:19 am

Sounds like Chris has it figured out for you.  30s on stock sport wheels.  At least if you didn't like the power loss, you would know that you have the most lightweight setup you can get.  Out of the two sets of Mudlites I owned, I always had one that had a slow leak around the bead, and they wear quick if you don't stay away from the hardtop.  I never had the sidewall issues that lots of people claim on them.  With aftermarket wheels, you are mostly just gaining looks over the stock sport wheels and the cost of weight.  The sport wheels are very tough.  Maybe the toughest wheel for their weight that there will ever be.  If you want to be wider up front, you could throw on some spacers.

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:00 pm

i took one of my tires off yesterday and to my suprise the tire mounted on the wheel is 44 lbs. and it only measures 26.5 tall not on the rhino. thats a heavy ass tire. also found out my wheels are 12x7 4+3 offset. now that i know that i dont think i am going to really notice going to a 36lb 30" tire. im guessing my rim weighs 10 lbs +- a pound. so my overall weight may not change from what i have now.

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:05 pm

as long as you have a good clutch set up, your power loss wont be that bad....  Mid range and top end will suffer the most...  I have a set of 29.5 terminators I was running with my stock set up with clutch work... 16g ods and gold spring... I could break them loose whenever I wanted.... but I suffered on top end and mid range...  Its hard to get a hard pulling tall tire without going deeper in the motor...  the torque is there with the clutch set up right....

If I was going with a light aggressive tire, id go mudlite's or zilla's...  Im not a fan of zilla's but they light as hell,,,,,  I much rather a mudlite....

Also, its not only the weight that will slow you down,  A rhino cant handle the roll over of the tire height as well....  Something else to consider... 

 I know with my 28" Moto MTC's (just tires weight 38 lbs a piece), 18g ods and gold spring I ran 48 mph top end with a good little kick on the bottom side as well...  I was satisfied until someone (JAMES) talked me into the cam n msd.....  Now I have tons of bottom end and run 54 mph with my 28's ....  29.5's terminators (just tires weigh 48 lbs a piece) I run around 46 mph top end....  Stocks about 58-60 mph

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ChrisH

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:04 pm

banchee6 wrote:
as long as you have a good clutch set up, your power loss wont be that bad....  Mid range and top end will suffer the most... 

 This thread has some really good info.

Me personally, I am not a fan of an unnecessarily heavy tire. I tend to pick the category tire I want (all terrain, mud terrain), then select the size I want to run, and then find the lightest tire from that criterion. That seems to work for me and my area. For example, my buddy and I have identical Rhino 700: same year, color, sport edition, etc. We both had stock motors with a JBS sheave and 16g weights. The only difference was the tires- I had 27" Radial Outlaws and he had 27" ITP MudLite XTRs. The heavier Radial Outlaws were slower in top speed, slower to accelerate, and didn't mud all that much better than the XTR. Even though I preferred the reputation of the Radial Outlaw and I loved the look of the tire, the performance hit just wasn't worth it for me. The weight difference between the tires: 8-9lbs for the front and 5lbs for the rear. It was noticeable.

I'm not saying that a person should go out and buy the thinnest, lightest, balloon tires on the market without any other consideration. That's why I say to pick out the tread. If you want to hit every mudhole in an ATV park then you are going to need a big lugged tire, and that is going to add a lot of weight. Outlaws and Silverbacks and Terminators weight more than Bighorns and MudLights because they have so much more tread and sidewall tread. Yet, that is what is going to pull you through stuff where others are stuck.

Weight isn't everything but it is a factor, especially on a vehicle like a Rhino that doesn't have a lot of power to spare.

I had a Ford Super Duty with the 5.4L gas engine. So again, this was a vehicle with limited power. I had 35" Goodyear Wrangler MT/R Kevlars that weighed 65lbs. When those wore out, I bought a set of 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers that weighed 80lbs. I could feel the power loss everywhere and lost about 1mpg.The height stayed the same but the weight went up.

I think this thread has a lot of truth to it. Both height and weight affect performance. Some people will notice it more than others. On the Yamaha Rhino, good clutching is critical. The taller the tire and the heavier the tire you run, well in my opinion, the clutch better be dialed in right.

I recently went up in tire size from a 26" Bighorn to a 30" Bighorn. I increased my unsprung weight by about 12lbs per corner in addition to increasing the height substantially. I took a performance loss across the board, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting. The modest performance penalty was worth the huge increase in ground clearance and traction for my riding conditions.

Everybody is going to be a little different when it comes to what is ok and not ok, and I believe it has everything to do with how you use your vehicle. Guys who ride dunes would not find the power loss of a 30" Bighorn acceptable over a 25" Bighorn. But I would find the ground clearance penalty unacceptable of a 25" Bighorn so I trade off some power to get it.

Again, just my 2 cents.

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:07 pm

My Big Horn's in the rear are about half worn out at 850 miles and once I finish them off I am fairly certain that I am going to a set of 28" Mongrels.  I know they are heavy but I want something that is going to last a long time in rock and gravel conditions I ride in and won't chunk as bad or get flats.  Now I just need to make enough reliable power to push them.

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:59 pm

the only thing I have done to my rhino is a jbs sheave I don't remember what weights james sent me. I want a 30" tire. I keep trying to talk myself into 28s but its not working...lol..I am bouncing between the bighorn and the blackwater evolution. leaning more towards the blackwater. the blackwater is 8 ply and a bit more aggressive than the bighorn and its only 2 lbs heavier at 33.3 lbs.

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If you can`t drive over it or thru it ....JUMP IT!

07 660 , jbs sheave , 2" cfm lift , 28x11x12 ITP Mega Mayhems mounted on black MSA M17`s , warn bumper , warn rt30 , str8up motorsports family cage  , emp in dash radio , full snorkles , more to come....
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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:12 pm

Those blackwater evolutions do look pretty aggressive and I like that they are 8ply.

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:20 pm

I'm glad I didn't know about those Blackwaters.
Because I had a tough enough time deciding between the Zillas and the Bighorns.
Remember this is supposed to be fun...
Dancing Banana

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:15 pm

thekevin wrote:
Those blackwater evolutions do look pretty aggressive and I like that they are 8ply.
yea not over kill aggressive like silverbacks but have a bit more then bighorns and 8 ply sidewalls.  pretty sure there the ones im getting.  

ChrisH wrote:
I'm glad I didn't know about those Blackwaters.
Because I had a tough enough time deciding between the Zillas and the Bighorns.
Remember this is supposed to be fun...
Dancing Banana

 i was looking at zillas but from a lot of posts i read they seem to be puncture prone and have weak sidewalls. they have to give up something to get that light weight.

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If you can`t drive over it or thru it ....JUMP IT!

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:33 am

talk about a bite in the ass. backing the rhino into the shed last night i took notice to the fact i am about 2 inches from it not fitting into my shed. i dont think it is going to fit once i get the teryx shocks and 30s on. right now my tires are 26" tall and i have the 2" cfm lift. the teryx shocks are going to add and inch and 30s are gonna about 2 inches. before you ask yes i am removing the cfm lift and i am going to just run the teryx shocks. i need the shocks more than 30s the stock shocks are not up for the task of the added weight of the back seat and the 4 seater cage. so i just ordered the shocks once i get em on i gotta measure everything to find out how all of a tire i can fit. sure am glad i noticed it now. boy i would have been pissed!

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If you can`t drive over it or thru it ....JUMP IT!

07 660 , jbs sheave , 2" cfm lift , 28x11x12 ITP Mega Mayhems mounted on black MSA M17`s , warn bumper , warn rt30 , str8up motorsports family cage  , emp in dash radio , full snorkles , more to come....
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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:33 pm

hey mike keep me posted on the teryx shocks my go the same route hate the thoughts of droping atleast a grand on good aftermarket ones

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:43 pm

wanna sell the cfm kit?

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:05 pm

09-rhino700 wrote:
wanna sell the cfm kit?

 I have a front CFM lift, used but in good shape, I'll send you for shipping. I bet it could fit in the smallest flat rate box they got.

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:59 pm

i do plan on selling my cfm lift but not till i take the rhino out a few times with the teryx shocks. i wanna make sure i like the teryx shocks before i off my lift.

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PostSubject: Re: i need help!   Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:00 pm

madmax 1 wrote:
hey mike keep me posted on the teryx shocks my go the same route hate the thoughts of droping atleast a grand on good aftermarket ones

 yea no prob. i got em off ebay. brand new take off`s for 189 shipped.

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