what cam for slow technical trail riding and maximum torque

The mudbuster does good right off the bottom but that's it,i would keep the stage 1 raptor..its a great all around cam and I don't think it would be worth all the trouble to switch to the mudbuster.

Thx Mike.

Glad to help when I can bud.

Is the MudBuster cam still available to buy? I haven't seen on for sale lately or seen people talk about them much. I know Alba prefers the Webb cam (I think). I would entertain a cam swap just to try the different power bands. 

I'm not going to lie, I'd like even more bottom end, right off idle power if I could get it. There's just something about that gut wrenching torque from 0 - 10MPH that is so fun for our riding environment. 

I'm tempted to try a Mud Buster cam or a stock Yamaha Raptor cam just to try it.

you guys that have high compression engines should keep in mind that when you go to a different cam you will be changing intake and exhaust durations (overlap).

it WILL raise your compression levels.
i am bringing this up so we don't read about your engines grenading from detonation.

PLEASE be very careful and talk to someone who builds engines first like Alba and/or the Hot Rod

08Rhino450SE wrote:

you guys that have high compression engines should keep in mind that when you go to a different cam you will be changing intake and exhaust durations (overlap).

it WILL raise your compression levels.
i am bringing this up so we don't read about your engines grenading from detonation.

PLEASE be very careful and talk to someone who builds engines first like Alba and/or the Hot Rod

I'm going to need this explained to me for I don't understand how on the compression stroke and power stroke of an engine,both which are on the inner base circle of the cam, meaning the cam isnt doing anything,Makes more compression? Please professor enlighten us.

look it up asswad.

wtf do you think those valves are for?

i rode in thepaynes rhino today with the stage 2 and it still didnt have the torque i am looking for.  i cant wait for the 22nd, i think that raptor cam is going to be the answer.

instant torque i should say.

08Rhino450SE wrote:

look it up asswad.

wtf do you think those valves are for?

  

thekevin wrote:

i rode in thepaynes rhino today with the stage 2 and it still didnt have the torque i am looking for.  i cant wait for the 22nd, i think that raptor cam is going to be the answer.

 I dunno what his "bling-sheet" reads ;  but ,  with all of your mods , the cam and the tires are the only thing I  can see that is keeping you from what you are after.  'Bout the only thing you haven't done is put in a stroker crank...maybe that'll get what ur wanting ???

ChrisH wrote:

Is the MudBuster cam still available to buy? I haven't seen on for sale lately or seen people talk about them much. I know Alba prefers the Webb cam (I think). I would entertain a cam swap just to try the different power bands. 

I'm not going to lie, I'd like even more bottom end, right off idle power if I could get it. There's just something about that gut wrenching torque from 0 - 10MPH that is so fun for our riding environment. 

I'm tempted to try a Mud Buster cam or a stock Yamaha Raptor cam just to try it.

 Who sells the mudbuster?  Or sold?  I would lime that I think.

08Rhino450SE wrote:

look it up asswad.

wtf do you think those valves are for?

 Ok so the piston is traveling up on the compression stroke, valves are closed, how is the cam going to cause more compression? Honest question! Next is the power stroke where spark is ignites the compressed air and fuel slightly before TDC. Piston travels down also with valves closed, again how does the cam raise compression? Since the valves are closed? Next the exhaust stroke as the piston travels up exhaust valve open not compressing anything. Intake valve open creates a vacuume.
So again where can a cam increase compression?
Aswad

I like my stage 1 raptor cam, but I might be interested in the mud buster also.

Polarblu wrote:

08Rhino450SE wrote:

look it up asswad.

wtf do you think those valves are for?

 Ok so the piston is traveling up on the compression stroke, valves are closed, how is the cam going to cause more compression? Honest question! Next is the power stroke where spark is ignites the compressed air and fuel slightly before TDC. Piston travels down also with valves closed, again how does the cam raise compression? Since the valves are closed? Next the exhaust stroke as the piston travels up exhaust valve open not compressing anything. Intake valve open creates a vacuume.
So again where can a cam increase compression?
Aswad

last chance, blu…

an engine is really nothing more than a pump. it pumps air and fuel into a chamber, and then through the force of an explosion, pumps it out of that chamber.

a bump stick (camshaft) is basically that circle that you mentioned, also. it has 360° of rotation, just like the crankshaft that i think is confusing you.

in the case of an overhead camshaft, the valves are pushed open by the high side lobe of the cam, and when it travels down to the low side of the cam the valve springs force the valve closed.

the amount of time that a valve is open is referred to as duration.

From Crane Cams' Website:
"Lower duration cams produce the power in the lower RPM range. Larger duration cams operate at higher RPM, but you will lose bottom end power to gain top end power as the duration is increased. (For each ten degree change in the duration at .050", the power band moves up or down in RPM range by approximately 500 RPM.)"

the amount of time that the intake valve and the exhaust valve are open at the same time is referred to as overlap.

there are at least 2 ways to measure compression: mechanical (static) compression and corrected compression. mechanical compression is basically an average high compression, because it is taken while the engine is spinning, but not actually firing at high revolutions per minute. corrected compression takes into account the time interval that the mixture is under compression at those high revolutions per minute.

when you increase the overlap of the intake and exhaust valves, you can increase the flow rate of the fuel and air through the engine. you actually lower the corrected compression because the time the air and fuel sit in the cylinder under compression is shortened.

when you take that engine that is built to increase the flow rate (by increasing the intake of fuel and the rate at which it is exhausted) and then put in a cam with less overlap, you effectively increase the time that mixture is under compression, and the corrected compression is raised closer to the static compression.

when you have a "high compression engine" you can lower the corrected compression by using more duration that a higher overlap cam can provide.

things get a little fuzzy if you go too far, and if you don't deal with the increase in compression, it gets "noisy" real fast.

i realize that it's real easy to push that send button

Good write up!

Finally a decent answer!! Now carry on in that respect and quit just throwing out arrogant statements without the homework to go along with it ! 
Also if you have the cam specs for these stage 123 and mud buster cams we can see just how this comes into play. I can't find them but you will see that the duration of overlap is greater and in all cases raises the rpm and narrows the usable power and DECREASES the compression.

mudbuster for 660
 
Exhaust Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
248.00
Exhaust Lift (mm):
9.12
Exhaust Lobe Center (Degrees):
104.50
Exhaust Valve Lash (mm):
.25
Intake Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
247.00
Intake Lift (mm):
9.02
Intake Lobe Center (Degrees):
104.50
Intake Valve Lash (mm):
.20
Shim Kit:
N/A

stage 1 for 660
Exhaust Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
248.00
Exhaust Lift (mm):
9.04
Exhaust Lobe Center (Degrees):
102.50
Exhaust Valve Lash (mm):
.25
Intake Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
246.00
Intake Lift (mm):
8.64
Intake Lobe Center (Degrees):
101.50
Intake Valve Lash (mm):
.20
Shim Kit:
N/A0

stage 2 rhino/stage 1 raptor 660
Exhaust Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
249.00
Exhaust Lift (mm):
9.40
Exhaust Lobe Center (Degrees):
106.00
Exhaust Valve Lash (mm):
.25
Intake Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
254.00
Intake Lift (mm):
8.50
Intake Lobe Center (Degrees):
106.00
Intake Valve Lash (mm):
.20
Shim Kit:

mudbuster for 700 grizzly should fit rhino 700
 
Exhaust Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
243.00
Exhaust Lift (mm):
8.60
Exhaust Lobe Center (Degrees):
102.00
Exhaust Valve Lash (mm):
.18
Intake Duration (Degrees at 1mm):
253.50
Intake Lift (mm):
9.60
Intake Lobe Center (Degrees):
111.75
Intake Valve Lash (mm):
.10
Shim Kit:
N/A

all these cams are on hotcams.com,just do a search..they don't have a mudbuster cam in the 700 rhino section,but 700 raptor and 700 grizzly cams should work in 700 rhino.

http://www.hotcamsinc.com/ProductSearch.aspx?page=1 link for grizzly cams.

Polarblu wrote:

Finally a decent answer!! Now carry on in that respect and quit just throwing out arrogant statements without the homework to go along with it ! 
Also if you have the cam specs for these stage 123 and mud buster cams we can see just how this comes into play. I can't find them but you will see that the duration of overlap is greater and in all cases raises the rpm and narrows the usable power and DECREASES the compression.

throwing out arrogant statements?
i repeat: WTF???
and you want me to do a worksheet for you? dis ain't high school, blu, and the statements i make are fact unless you want to debate them,
but you could be a little more civil in your "tone."
just because YOU don't know what you're talking about doesn't mean i don't, and no, i don't have to explain myself to anyone, especially someone that doesnt want to show me a modicum of respect. (look it up)
oh yeah - i forgot - you want me to look that up for you, too, don't you?

read this and get back with me when you understand it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle

contrary to popular opinion, NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING

Hear is all I know.  Whether it lowers compression or not, a cam turns a stock 700 into a monster for the money.    And, if it lowered my compression, that just means that I know I can run 87 from Sheetz and haul ass without any worry. 

Thanks for looking that up Denny.  Nice read!