Cam n MSD installed

Yea buddy. This thing has some ungodly power. I'm very impressed with the low end punch it has. But I think I need a little more tuning. I have a off idle bog. Not really sure how to tune the msd all that well. Hopefully I can get a video of it running and have someone chime in. Also, I find it a little hard to start. It popped off quick the first two times but then I had to spin it over quiet a bit to get it running. I'm sure it's something minor but I'm completely clueless.

I ordered the msd the other day holding off on the cam for now id like to see the progressive difference looking forward to the power once i get it all done and tuned.

I have several MSD maps I can email you to try.
The cam makes the Rhino idle rich, in my experience. Let me know if you want to try a few different maps.

I have James's map in it now. Chris, how much is that auto tune thing and does it work with the msd?? I'm courious to learn more.

Another question Chris,,,,, on your intake snorkles, what size you running and are you running dual intake snorkles? I could be lacking air supply to the box on the hit of the throttle.

The MSD, unfortunately, has no autotune option.
So I used the Bazzaz fuel controller. By the time you get the Bazzaz and the autotune you're in for at least $500. And you still need the MSD for ignition and timing control. It's just a big expensive bandaid for us who have no dyno tuner in the area.

On the other hand, the auto tune seems to do a great job. You just enter your desired Air-Fuel ratio and it adjusts the maps accordingly.

I know what you mean about that bog, though. You get a great initial hit of power, a very brief lag, and then it just blows up with awesome acceleration. That bog is annoying to guys like us who mud ride and frequently go from stopped to full throttle. If you just ride trails and do little stop and go, you hardly notice it.

I tried wet clutch slugs, changing me secondary spring, and multiple maps in my MSD. The bigger and heavier tire you use, the more pronounced is that little bog. If you can power through it, then you hardly notice it. Or, if you have poor traction and can spin through the bog, again it is less noticeable.

I am not currently snorkeled. I run a stock air box with the rubber snout removed. Here's a dirty little secret - I still have the bog even with my built motor and auto tuner. On pavement, I can dang near pull the front tires off the ground just flooring it from a stop. But I then get that lag! Ugh!

To tell you the truth, I am stumped about what causes that little lag. I love everything else about the cam except that one thing. I don't know if its just the profile of the cam or tuning or what. But it is what it is.

Maybe someone else can chime in. My gut is that it's the power delivery of the cam profile and not tuning. Some days it makes me want to put the stock cam back in just to test.

Here's a fun tid bit for you as well:
The stock Rhino 700 cam is the original cam Yamaha put in the 2007-2008 Grizzly 700. However, Yamaha changed the cam in 2009 in the Grizzly 700 and continues to use that cam in current 2013 model Grizzlys. The OEM Raptor 700 cam is a different cam altogether.

Sorry I can't be more help. All I can say is I know what you are talking about.

chris have you tried different cams for maybe the same power level and no bog when i get mine all dialed the dunes aren't to far away then the power bug will bite again and i will be looking for a cam for mine. decent power less bog maybe?

I know what you mean Chris.... I took it out yesterday and just cruised.... I really ran great, the power is there... I mean really there

The low end bog isnt as bad as i thought but its for sure there, I talked to James yesterday and he is aware of the issue.... Hes considering making a few changes and trying a few options with timing on low end to get a little more responce.... Once again, customer service that you cant match

Im ripping those 28's like they 25's....... without the swap bar hooked up, she really plants those tires hard... working out the corners is kinda scary.... but its a mud maching not a speed racer.. I got it up to 44 mph and im completely satasfied on how fast i get there.....

Im considering changing my clutch back to 18g weights..... I rather the engine rpm at low speeds, but i dont know how the power delievery will be,,, Im currently running 16g and i just think i will be bad on axles with those 29.5 terminators....... When she revs, she really revs n hard.....

It was one upgrade i was proud to do.... its like when you first order a sheave and install it... You are amazed on how one little part makes that much of a difference.... When you do the cam n MSD, you make that little part upgrade go from wow..... to whoooooooopie..... Like the little pig on the gieco comercials lol.........

The Grizzly guys seem to think the bog or lag we are talking about may be inherent of the wet clutch. The more power you make and the more weight you try to push and the bigger tires you try to turn, well, the more pronounced that little lag you and I are talking about.

I have tried a couple of maps that dial in a couple of degrees of timing advance at low RPM and then back out of the timing as the engine spools up. It helps. But it doesn't eliminate it. I can email you the map to try if you want. Just PM me your email and I'd be happy to send it. The map does recommend premium pump gas, however.

i dont think it will ever be all gone either...

what cam do you think would work best James for dune style riding mainly? We were talking yesterday and it seems most feel the stage two works best for everything but the top end speed. When I ride in the sand I want to be sure that I can the most out of the high rpm's. As KJ said yesterday we both are running pretty much in the higher range most of time. You can see below what I'm running can you guide me what you think would work best.

Well, I can live with the bog on the hit of the throttle. My main consern is the rhino is a little hard to start after its warmed up. Is there something I missed or I was told a new plug should clear that up. What's the correct gap and will the stock plug work with this set up??

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem! Lol. I told James, I don't care how fast my top end is, I want to be able to turn my 30's over in the mud from a stand still!!!! I can do 42-44 mph in low with my 30" Outlaws, but that standing bog kills me. James sent me some 14g od's but after a week I changed back to 16's last night. Chris, how much is the auto tune? I run the Dynatek and Bazzaz. Eric, mine idols fine but has a little miss about 18mph, we've been swapping maps trying to figure it out. Swapped out my throttle body and it really ran ROUGH!! James thinks my TB is bad, sending it back tomorrow, put my stock back on. Was hoping new TB would give me a little more help with the bog. Chris, what about slugs, do they help?
I WANT TO START BREAKING AXILS! Lol.

If I know the mud is going to be bad and have time to react, no problem, it's when it sneaks up or you were trying to ease thru and have to come to a stop, it's had to get her going again. A motorcycle performance shop just opened here close to me, they advertise Dyno tuning, maybe they can help?

If you dyno tune, you can find all your little imperfections and smooth them out perfect. I was considering taking mine to a buddy to and see what he could do with the tune. He's pretty good with that sorta thing with his dyno. Mine idles awesome. Stays cool and revs hard. Just hard to start when it warms up

Ok, took 30's off and put stock tires on.
JBS sheave, gold spring, 16g OD weights, cam, Dynatek and Bazzaz, roof and windshield.
Low 47mph before hitting rev limiter
High 56 mph and no rev limiter

30" outlaws
Low 42mph no rev limiter
High 46 mph no rev limiter

All readings are going by the didital speedometer

That's impressive numbers. I didn't run mine with the 29.5's on top end yet. Kinda don't really care how fast it goes now. Just mainly worried about 0-30 that's about it

Me too but James wanted to see my speeds with stock tires to make sure my mods are all right.

The only bog I have is when the wet clutch engages, I can feel it when it lugs down. If I roll 3mph and nail it, no bog ever. I guess it's just the way it's going to be with a wet clutch. Only thing I could think of is get the tires turning before you hit the thick mud and keep them turning.

Anyone's rhino hard to start tho??? That's may main consern.

banchee6 wrote:

Anyone's rhino hard to start tho??? That's may main consern.

it should not be hard to start ever

Lol. Well we know that James. I'm going to get a video of it before n after.

Randy3451 wrote:

Ok, took 30's off and put stock tires on.
JBS sheave, gold spring, 16g OD weights, cam, Dynatek and Bazzaz, roof and windshield.
Low 47mph before hitting rev limiter
High 56 mph and no rev limiter

30" outlaws
Low 42mph no rev limiter
High 46 mph no rev limiter

All readings are going by the didital speedometer

i lost 5 mph top speed just from putting on new tires. i don't think you can get accurate mph without gps or equivalent.
big tires turn slower...

It's not that far off actually. Well mine wasn't. I was doing. 48 with 28's on the digital speedo and GPS said 49 and blinking 50. On asphalt.

Hump wrote:

The only bog I have is when the wet clutch engages, I can feel it when it lugs down. If I roll 3mph and nail it, no bog ever. I guess it's just the way it's going to be with a wet clutch. Only thing I could think of is get the tires turning before you hit the thick mud and keep them turning.

X2!!!!!!!