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 09 700 not charging when running

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419camorhino



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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeSat May 11, 2013 9:11 pm

A friend of mine installed a new marine radio and amp in his Rhino now it won't charge when running. We unhooked the radio and amp, still doesn't charge. It will actually kill the battery on a long enough ride. When it sits for a couple days it will not draw the battery down so its not a draw that is killing it. I went over today with my rhino to compare readings. We ohm'd out the stator as following the service manual. We swapped out the regulator off mine to his still no charge. We were looking for pinched wires and if the radio was pinching other wires, none found. He then grabbed the small ground wire coming off the neg terminal on battery with the quick connect and stated man that's hot. So I grabbed ahold of it and unhooked it started the rhino up it then was charging 14 volts hooked the connector back up it went back to 11.9 volts. So we started checking wires and this ground appears to be the same wire that goes for the ground on the regulator we left it un hooked on both ends and but a jumper wire from the regulator to the battery it charges 14 volts. Any ideas what we should look at because when you plug in the connector on the battery no charge even with the jumper wire?


Last edited by 419camorhino on Tue May 14, 2013 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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123.bert0621

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeSat May 11, 2013 10:01 pm

Sound like the stator blues I had change mine,it had the very same symptoms I road a little further and the voltage dropped from 11.5 to about 10 then lower and stalled, didn't have cables when I got back to the truck I boosted it for 15 minutes it started right away 11.5V . Replaced the stator and has been perfect 14V when I turn on the key and bright lights. BUT BEFORE REPLACING ANYTHING CHECK THE GROUNDS,CONNECTORS,BATT+,SHORTS TO GROUND ,SHORTS TO POWER AND LOADTEST YOUR WIRE HARNESS,it may be able to carry voltage but not current

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SteveS

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeSat May 11, 2013 10:29 pm

I'm not at all sure what is going on there. It sort of seems like you might have a short between your harness ground wire and some ignition hot voltage wire, possibly within the harness? Are you absolutely positive that all remnants of the radio hookup are removed?

Try this as an experiment: Disconnect the battery terminal pigtail from the harness pigtail as you have done. Hook a wire from the battery terminal pigtail to a known good grounding point on the frame. See if it will start and run, while keeping your fingers on that wire that you just connected. If it gets warm, quickly shut the ignition off. If the wire does not get hot, check the function of your various electrical systems (lights, gauges, charging, etc.). Assuming that the wire does not get hot, leave it be and go on to the next step: If it does get hot, disconnect the new jumper and go to the next step:

Hook a wire from the other side of that pigtail connection (from the harness end) to a known good chassis ground. Repeat the engine startup while monitoring the temperature of the wire that you just hooked up. If it gets hot, shut it down and disconnect the wire. If it does not get hot, check the functionality of your various electrical systems again.

The above tests should narrow down your search to the harness or to the chassis ground connection. Post your results (including reference to any systems that do not function properly) and we can go on from there.

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419camorhino



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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2013 9:39 am

SteveS wrote:
I'm not at all sure what is going on there. It sort of seems like you might have a short between your harness ground wire and some ignition hot voltage wire, possibly within the harness? Are you absolutely positive that all remnants of the radio hookup are removed?

Try this as an experiment: Disconnect the battery terminal pigtail from the harness pigtail as you have done. Hook a wire from the battery terminal pigtail to a known good grounding point on the frame. See if it will start and run, while keeping your fingers on that wire that you just connected. If it gets warm, quickly shut the ignition off. If the wire does not get hot, check the function of your various electrical systems (lights, gauges, charging, etc.). Assuming that the wire does not get hot, leave it be and go on to the next step: If it does get hot, disconnect the new jumper and go to the next step:

Hook a wire from the other side of that pigtail connection (from the harness end) to a known good chassis ground. Repeat the engine startup while monitoring the temperature of the wire that you just hooked up. If it gets hot, shut it down and disconnect the wire. If it does not get hot, check the functionality of your various electrical systems again.

The above tests should narrow down your search to the harness or to the chassis ground connection. Post your results (including reference to any systems that do not function properly) and we can go on from there.

Thanks Steve I'll try to get back down there sometime this week he's an hour away from me and we'll try that. We took the harness apart from the ground wire that bolts to the hold down Bolt on the regulator that runs behind the frame over to the battery and didn't see anything wrong. he had everything unhooked in the fuse box that he had hooked up for the radio. I was trying to ohm everything I could think of looking for short to voltage its just funny that it will charge with the ground un hooked but as soon as you hook the quick disconnect back up no charge.
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419camorhino



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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2013 9:40 am

and sorry I just noticed on the headline I put carging not charging lol
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Stuntmanmike

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2013 10:07 am

The one test that will tell you if you have a bad stator is if any of the white wires from stator have any continuity to ground. I have seen quite a few that only burn one coil and it still acts like it's charging right occationaly.

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SteveS

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2013 10:10 am

Stuntmanmike wrote:
The one test that will tell you if you have a bad stator is if any of the white wires from stator have any continuity to ground. I have seen quite a few that only burn one coil and it still acts like it's charging right occationaly.

Good point. That might explain the quirkyness of the ground pigtail connection?

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sls666

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 13, 2013 10:27 am

Sounds what mine did when the stator shorted out. Make sure you have 20 volts a/c between all three combinations of the white wires while it is running.

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WV Hot Rod Rhino
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WV Hot Rod Rhino

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 13, 2013 10:47 am

i have everything in stock...prolly the stator.....not saying yours was but dirty oil kills them fast

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sls666

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 13, 2013 12:19 pm

ya mine burnt out after a dirty swampiing in 5 feet of water, is that the same case as the wet clutch too about the diry oil?

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soarkrebel

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 13, 2013 1:43 pm

09 700 not charging when running 2011-12-15_03-48-54_177[img]09 700 not charging when running 2011-12-15_00-36-42_822[/img]Been there......

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419camorhino



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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 13, 2013 1:44 pm

ok i told him what to look for i'm gonna try to get there sometime this week and look at it myself i'll let ya know what i found later this week. if it is the stator James i'll call you later this week on that and some other stuff.
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419camorhino



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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2013 1:46 pm

WV Hot Rod Rhino wrote:
i have everything in stock...prolly the stator.....not saying yours was but dirty oil kills them fast

Ok james how much are we talking for stator parts and gaskets we need to replace it my friend ohm'd it out last night he said each leg has continuity with ground but i'm gonna still try to get down there to check it out this week. He was just wondering what it would run him?
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419camorhino



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Location : Wauseon Oh

09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeThu May 16, 2013 1:46 pm

well my friend ordered his own stator and looks like i'll be helping him put it in this weekend thank you for the info guys it was a great help
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419camorhino



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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 20, 2013 1:58 pm

yep it was the stator put new one in it charges and ground wire doesn't get hot thanks to stuntmanmike and steves and james for the assistance
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SteveS

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 20, 2013 2:17 pm

419camorhino wrote:
yep it was the stator put new one in it charges and ground wire doesn't get hot thanks to stuntmanmike and steves and james for the assistance

Great, you have got it working! I would suggest that you read this thread and consider implementing this mod. It will prevent that dinky ground wire from burning up if you should overload the grounding circuit some other day.

https://hotrodrhinoforums.forumotion.com/t1104-improve-your-grounding

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soarkrebel

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 20, 2013 3:36 pm

SteveS wrote:
419camorhino wrote:
yep it was the stator put new one in it charges and ground wire doesn't get hot thanks to stuntmanmike and steves and james for the assistance

Great, you have got it working! I would suggest that you read this thread and consider implementing this mod. It will prevent that dinky ground wire from burning up if you should overload the grounding circuit some other day.

[url=https://hotrodrhinoforums.forumotion.com/t1104-improve-your-grounding
https://hotrodrhinoforums.forumotion.com/t1104-improve-your-grounding[/quote[/url]] Has this been done on a 700?

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SteveS

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 20, 2013 4:03 pm

[quote="soarkrebel"]
SteveS wrote:
419camorhino wrote:
yep it was the stator put new one in it charges and ground wire doesn't get hot thanks to stuntmanmike and steves and james for the assistance

Great, you have got it working! I would suggest that you read this thread and consider implementing this mod. It will prevent that dinky ground wire from burning up if you should overload the grounding circuit some other day.

https://hotrodrhinoforums.forumotion.com/t1104-improve-your-grounding[/quote] Has this been done on a 700?

I cannot say for sure that the fix has been done to a 700, but I do know that 700's have had that pigtail overheat to the point that they burn up. If you have a bone stock electrical system, the only time it will likely melt down is if the ground cable to the engine gets loose or corroded, and possibly if the stator shorts to ground, as seen in this thread. Another way to burn it up on an unmodified machine is to add lots of high current draw accessories and connect to the chassis as a ground for them.

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soarkrebel

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 20, 2013 5:03 pm

[quote="SteveS"]
soarkrebel wrote:
SteveS wrote:
419camorhino wrote:
yep it was the stator put new one in it charges and ground wire doesn't get hot thanks to stuntmanmike and steves and james for the assistance

Great, you have got it working! I would suggest that you read this thread and consider implementing this mod. It will prevent that dinky ground wire from burning up if you should overload the grounding circuit some other day.

https://hotrodrhinoforums.forumotion.com/t1104-improve-your-grounding[/quote] Has this been done on a 700?

I cannot say for sure that the fix has been done to a 700, but I do know that 700's have had that pigtail overheat to the point that they burn up. If you have a bone stock electrical system, the only time it will likely melt down is if the ground cable to the engine gets loose or corroded, and possibly if the stator shorts to ground, as seen in this thread. Another way to burn it up on an unmodified machine is to add lots of high current draw accessories and connect to the chassis as a ground for them.
Steve you remember I have already been down the stator road. I may do some looking into it since I have my Rhino opened up. I am working to add a full size battery (auto size) under the seat. Also adding some LED lights in the cab.

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SteveS

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09 700 not charging when running Empty
PostSubject: Re: 09 700 not charging when running   09 700 not charging when running Icon_minitimeMon May 20, 2013 6:03 pm

soarkrebel wrote:
Steve you remember I have already been down the stator road. I may do some looking into it since I have my Rhino opened up. I am working to add a full size battery (auto size) under the seat. Also adding some LED lights in the cab.

Alright! Have you read this recent thread yet? It kinda covers all of the options. Towards the end of the thread, I posted pix showing how I mounted a large battery under the seat and isolated the battery circuits using a dual rectifier/regulator arrangement. There is a large number of ways to go about this and maybe these ideas will help you out.

https://hotrodrhinoforums.forumotion.com/t550-battery-upgrade

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